What happens when you leave the comfort of the familiar to chase your dreams in an unexpected place? In this episode of Remote With, we sit down with Obum Ukabam, one of the first participants in the Tulsa Remote program, to discuss his transformative journey from California to Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Discover:

• How the Tulsa Remote program helped Obum find a more fulfilling life and sense of purpose
• The power of embracing new opportunities and building community in an unfamiliar city
• Obum's passion for using theater to create intergenerational connections and workforce development
• The entrepreneurial spirit that led Obum's wife, Faith, to launch a successful restaurant in Tulsa
• Why Obum believes Tulsa is a hidden gem for remote workers seeking personal and professional growth

From pursuing his love for theater to supporting his wife's culinary ventures, Obum's story showcases the incredible potential that can be unlocked when you take a leap of faith. Whether you're considering a move through a remote work relocation program or simply looking for inspiration to chase your dreams, this episode is a must-listen.

Transcript

Justin Harlan:
Hey, I'm Justin Harlan, Managing Director of Tulsa Remote, and we are here for another episode of Remote With. We're celebrating five years at Tulsa Remote, and I'm honored to be here with Obum, who's one of our first members at Tulsa Remote. We are sitting in the beautiful Central High School Performing Arts Center, and Obum is a social worker and community arts liaison at Central Middle and High School. Man, it's an honor to be here with you.

Obum Ukabam:
Thank you for having me, and happy five-year anniversary. Can't believe it's been five years already, but happy five years.

Justin Harlan:
Thank you. Thank you. We're going to dive into your journey over the last five years, but we'd love to start even before that. Tell me a little bit about where you were, I guess it would be 2018, what you were up to before you discovered that Tulsa Remote even existed. What were you doing? And really kind of give me a sense of like what was missing in your life that caused you to even be open to the idea of moving to Tulsa?

Obum Ukabam:
Absolutely. So, you know, I grew up in St. Louis, Missouri, but I moved to California in the early, I would say around 2010, eight years, almost a decade into being in California, just going through life, right? Just going through the motions, I would say. And that's a preview to what was missing, right? I was just going through the motions, had my remote job, working hard at that, but really just only doing that, going to work, coming back. Occasionally, friends would visit and have to go and show them around and, you know, do the tourist thing. But really, I was just floating through life, you know, living in California at the time. You know, things were rough because, you know, cost of living is really high. The traffic is really bad. So, you know, you think four hours of my day was spent commuting. You don't have the time and energy to do other things once you're commuting for four hours and working all day. So I was missing just a quality life.I was missing activity. I was missing the things I was into, like theater and working with kids. So those things I tried to do when I could, but I was just really missing those things. But I didn't have time to do it. 

Justin Harlan:
And then you're there in California. And you see that this Tulsa Remote program has launched. And this predates me. I'm sure that there was very clever marketing. At the time, it was the only program that was paying somebody $10,000 to move from California or wherever to Tulsa. What was it that stood out to you about what you saw in Tulsa Remote that was appealing to you at that time?

Obum Ukabam:
Well, the first thing was that it was calling for remote workers. And I felt proud, like even back in 20… because I started really doing remote work 2012. And that was foreign to everybody. Even the CEOs didn't like it. Everybody didn't like it. But we were, you know, that was our job. So to me, hearing somebody call out for us, in a positive way, was the first thing that drew me in. Oh, okay, remote workers. I'm a remote worker. And then also, you know, at the time, there was a couple of opportunities of like, hey, move here, but it seemed really exclusive and you had to have a certain amount of money. And so it was so, you know, exclusive. So this one was kind of like, oh, okay, maybe I have a chance, right? It's looking for people who just want to make, you know, who wants to, from what I thought at the time, people who wanted to, you know, test out a new place and try something else, you know? And so that's what stood out to me. It was Oklahoma. So I was like, OK, this is interesting because I told myself I'd probably never go back to the Midwest or anything like that. But at the time, I really was impressed by the package, how they reached out to the remote workers. And I saw it all over social media, on Facebook even. And so I thought they did a great job of trying to find us. And they did find me. So I decided to give it a chance.

Justin Harlan:
Yeah. And I assume you maybe had been to Oklahoma because you grew up in St. Louis. But had you experienced Tulsa before?

Obum Ukabam:
To be honest, I really hadn't been to Oklahoma too many times. I mean, you know, growing up and I grew up in the Ferguson area. So if you've heard of Ferguson, Missouri, you know. And so we had our own issues in Missouri. And I always heard horror stories about Oklahoma. You know, they say if you hate Missouri, it's going to be worse. But I also knew a lot of people, a lot of African-American people, people of color who did live in Oklahoma and had great experiences. So I always knew in the back of my head that it wasn't as bad as people had said, but you know, you still, you still has, you still, you still had a stereotype for Oklahoma. So I carried that with me. I would say that honestly. Yeah.

Justin Harlan:
And who did you move to Tulsa with when you ultimately decided to come?

Obum Ukabam:
Yeah. So, I was with my wife, Faith. And so, she grew up in California and only lived in California. So this was going to be a new thing for her. And, you know, she trusted, she trusted me. She trusted where, you know, what we had planned for our life. And we knew at the time it was just, it was time for something else. This wasn't going to work. We just got married in 2017. So, you know, we're looking for our own place for ourself. Right? And that became so stressful that that seriously gave us a lot of stress. We had to stop looking every day. Like it's becoming too stressful. And so when the opportunity came up, it's like, you know what? Perfect timing. We really need something different. And, you know, we started researching Oklahoma and Tulsa because for me to sell it to myself was the one thing, but to sell it to other people was going to be another. Right? So we were very surprised what we found in the research and very pleased, you know, about what we found. And we found a lot of positive things. We found the history. We found a lot of the negative pros and cons. Right? It's like every other city, but we're very pleased at what kind of a welcoming city people were claiming it to be. Right? And so we said, why not? It's only a year. The program did a good job, especially in the beginning. I believe that's how it is now still. But they take away a lot of the risk. Even the way they set you up, they took away a lot of the risk so you can be successful. Even though the onus is on you, but they set us up to be successful. So once we realized that talking to the staff and getting to know everybody and the team we were coming into, we felt great about moving.

Justin Harlan:
That's awesome. I definitely want to dig into like what community building was like at that time. But man, I got to ask. So you had just gotten married. Did you then plant the seed that we're moving to Oklahoma? Or did Faith already know a little bit about you coming to Oklahoma before you got married? Like, did she know what she was signing up for here? Man, this could be like a Hollywood movie, I feel like.

Obum Ukabam:
No, she found out through with me. She found out the program with me. We've been together since 2014. So she found out the program through me. And again, because we would say these type of things. I don't know if you remember back then it was like move to Vancouver or something.

Justin Harlan:
Yeah. Yeah.

Obum Ukabam:
You just need to make $80,000 and you have to own two houses. And it was like you never could do it. And so we saw something. It's a remote workers. And I looked at everything. I said, I actually qualify for this. I said, but it's Oklahoma. I don't know if I can uproot my life, uproot Faith’s life. You know, and she's the only she's the baby of the family, the only girl, you know. And so it was like, where are you taking my baby? Oklahoma?

Obum Ukabam:
You know, so it was a lot to her. She was very brave in that. And I appreciate how she handled all the skepticism from her family and family and friends. A lot of her family was supportive, but, you know, you had a lot of people who were like, what are you doing in Oklahoma? So to see what we grew here has been amazing.

Justin Harlan:
Well, I'm sure nothing brings you closer together, you know, early on in marriage than a new adventure like packing up and moving halfway across the country. So, that's great. I definitely want to dig into some of her successes as well, because I know she's really planted roots here and had a lot of success. Let's go back to 2019. So you move here, pandemic still has not happened. So much of Tulsa Remote still today, and you kind of hinted at it in the early day, was consistent, which is like, come here, remote workers, we're calling you in, let's build community together. And I'm curious, what was community like at that time? There were 70 people that moved here for reference in 2019. We're five years in, approaching 3,000 people now. Obviously, community is incredibly difficult to scale, but I'd love to get a sense of what it was like in those early days. What did community feel like and look like for you at Tulsa Remote in 2019?

Obum Ukabam:
Absolutely. Yeah. And to hear the 3000 people now, it's just I continue to celebrate that. I'm really excited about it. But back then, that would have been too scary. Right? Especially when we first started, because, you know, it was 70. But even that was scaled in. So I remember just being the 25 of us at first just here. And so what community looked like was we all knew each other. You know, we all 70, all 25, whatever at the time, we all knew each other because we kind of stay close. You would see us huddled around two tables at 36 degrees north. And so we actually just built community by being thrown into the community, right? So Tulsa Remote does a great job, especially in the beginning of taking us out of our element. Right? We're remote workers. So a lot of us are used to just conference calls, video. Right? They had us… You can do all those things, but let's do it here at the co-working space or let's do it here at Chimera. Right? And so and by doing that, we were learning all the people in the places. But community… it was I would say it's easier than somebody now because we all knew each other and everybody in town knew we were here. And Tulsa does a special job of welcoming you and you know what and whatever you need, whatever you fancy, wherever you want to be around, they'll quickly send you there. And so for me community looked like everywhere I wanted to go, right? If I said I wanted to be around the kids and you know work with them on speech and debate…

Obum Ukabam:
I quickly was pushed in that direction. I said I wanted to be a theater, everything, right? So for us, it was just really trying to get to know the city. And we did a great job of taking us to the zoo or having meetings. We had a lot of community gatherings for Tulsa Remote. And we would invite Tulsans, right, to just talk to us and not on just a high level. You know, it was really like real conversation. And so O appreciate that the tulsa's early on because there's a lot of skepticism in the beginning, right? Because nobody knew what exactly was going on. Some people thought we just got ten thousand dollars right away to move here and that wasn't the case as you know but, you know, so it was a lot of skepticism. So a lot of people could have been very mean to us but Tulsa did a good job of welcoming us even through the, you know, they realized what was happening. And to people who told me later on like, I didn't know too much about the program, I don't know if I was happy about it or not, but you kind of helped change my mind. I didn't feel that from a lot of them in the beginning. They were still very cordial, very welcoming, and very, you know, as long as you're working and doing what you said you would do, Tulsa does a great job of welcoming you and working with you.

Justin Harlan:
You know, and we often get asked, like, how welcoming are Tulsans to Tulsa Remoters, and do you kind of feel othered? And my answer is always, it depends on the posture that you have as the person coming in. And I think that's really the case in life in general. But if you're coming in with the mentality of learning and adding to a community that's already thriving and trying to find your spot to add value as opposed to create something that isn't necessary, it's just going to be, you're going to be embraced in a very different way than you would if you're coming in thinking you've got all the answers looking to fix things. And you've done an exceptional job of that. I mean, it feels like you've made some really intentional decisions to getting plugged in and gradually moving away from feeling like you are a Tulsa remoter to I'm now a Tulsan. But in those early days of Tulsa remote, when I go and look at articles from the first year, I can't hardly find one that your face isn't all over, man. It's you, it's your story, it's your quotes. And I'm curious because I know you and we've talked a little bit. Why did that matter to you? Like, why was it important for you to put your face and name and story out there as somebody who is new to Tulsa and finding a home here?

Obum Ukabam:
Yeah, I thought it was very important because access is a big thing, right? And once I found out, oh my God, there's a secret in this country. It is a great place that people can come live now and add value and really chase their dreams and help out. I wanted everybody to know, but I know access, and especially for people of color, we don't have access to these things. So I want to make sure that, hey, people can see me and start the conversation. Okay, so there's this black guy telling people to move to Oklahoma. There has to be something there. Whether you agree with me or not, let's have the conversation, you know? Or...

Obum Ukabam:
You could try it out for a year, right? If you make it in. So it was very important for me that people saw that, yes, I am saying as a black man, that this is somewhere that, you know, you can at least explore. And, you know, and this is for me coming with all my trauma from before with living in Missouri and growing up in Midwest, I'm telling you. And so that did spark a lot of conversation. People were hitting me up on Instagram, LinkedIn, I mean, excuse me, Facebook, LinkedIn, just messaged me in everywhere, right? Finding my number somehow, but I welcomed it because people were saying, I'm not going to lie to you. I'm very skeptical, but just seeing what you're going through, I'm willing to give it a shot. You know, and of course I'm not saying Tulsa is perfect, right? But it's, it's somewhere where I wanted people to know that it is a place that we, as you're going through all the other issues you're dealing with in your city, you know, you can, you can definitely come to this city and grow. You can help, you can do everything you want to do that you may not be able to do now. So I just wanted to make sure that I, yes, it's important that a black man was telling people to move to Tulsa. Like I did intentionally want to be seen in that.

Justin Harlan:
Well, I got to thank you for that because you were our marketing and recruitment team before we had one.

Obum Ukabam:
And I was just very excited too. You had a couple people who just were excited to jump in and ready to do it. So I was like, yeah, if they needed people, volunteers, or I was just busy and they were catching me do things. So I was just very, at the time, very happy to be a part of, and I still am happy to be alumni, but very happy to be part of Tulsa Remote. So I was ready to be loyal and talk about the truth, you know, good or bad, everything that was going on with the program and with the city. So I was very on fire to do that.

Justin Harlan:
And so much of what you did and continue to do emulates what, you know, we're trying to do at a staff level now, but just helping people see themselves reflected here. And oftentimes trying to uncover or help mitigate some of the biases that are certainly present about Oklahoma or Tulsa. And I think that personal stories like yours make a big impact. And you certainly told your story a lot in that first year. I'm curious, was there a moment in which you felt like you were a Tulsan where you just said, like, OK, this is like this is my home. This is where I'm going to be for a while. This is where I want to put down roots. Was there a moment that comes to mind for you?

Obum Ukabam:
Yeah, definitely was in 2020 when I wrote ‘Reflections.’ It's the history of, you know, the Black Wall Street and Greenwood about the massacre. And so I wrote that play and was able to get it casted, produced and shown. And it was sold out audiences right before the pandemic. Right? And it was during that time, in writing it and performing it, it felt like my graduation, right? I was now adding value to the city, helping tell the story, bringing people together. I looked around the room and I even said in my speech, I came out at the end, I said, well, I'm a Tulsan now, you know, and I meant that. And another reason I felt it is because I started defending Tulsa. Now I started feeling like it was, you know, even on telling the story and hearing other comments about the city from outsiders, I was defending it a lot. And I said, you know what? Because I am one, you know, and it's been almost two years. So it just felt like I felt like a Tulsan. I felt like I had the right to call myself a Tulsan. And I was paying taxes. So financially, I was a Tulsan. But, you know, I just, it just hit me then that this is my city and I would love to defend anybody says anything against it. You know, I love the people here already in my two years, you know, but I, yeah, I was ready to go to war for Tulsa, you know, and so that's when I knew, okay, I'm a Tulsan.

Justin Harlan:
I love it. And is that what started kind of your theater journey in Tulsa? Because I know that's been a big part of your story here. Maybe talk a little bit about how that work has evolved during your time here. 

Obum Ukabam:
It became a huge part of it because now I became not just an actor but a director, theater board member. You know, I'm on the board of several, you know, I'm an arts commissioner for the city as well as Theater Tulsa and Tulsa Ballet. But that just began my journey in the arts and saying, OK, I want to do more for performing arts in this city. I know we have a lot going on, but I want to make sure it's accessible for everybody and make sure that we have just a new bringing new ideas, you know, and working with what we have here because we have a great theater scene here. So it was easy for me to jump in. I'm not gonna lie. I didn't create anything new, really. I didn't recreate the wheel I just added to it and that's one thing about Tulsa you can just add to already great things as well as inventing your own things or coming up with new things. But I didn't feel like I had to change much. And so that journey has been amazing because it's an intergenerational journey. I mean you're working with acting and directing and and helping people learn how to do these things from ages seven… one show i did there was a seven-year-old and a 70-year-old. Seven to 70 just working with them and watching them work together has been amazing for me. Just watching everybody and then seeing people perform and their families crying. And you know, I just love what performing arts can do for people and these students in Tulsa, helping them, you know, even further the grades and education through the arts has been amazing to watch. And I'm seeing the tangible things. I've seen the metrics, the outcomes, and that's been very heartwarming to see that we have immediate impact. And I'll say that about Tulsa. That's one place you can feel the impact. You know, you don't know sometimes what you're doing, but Tulsa you can definitely feel it right away.

Justin Harlan:
And we're sitting here in Central High School's Performing Arts Center. Tulsa's first school, first location was downtown. From your perspective, just like what this work means to you as you think about kind of pouring into children and the future of Tulsa, and how you're showing up every day. 

Obum Ukabam:
Yeah, I've always been one person who wants to give people options. And I don't believe as, you know, I grew up, I went to college, I did everything I'm supposed to do, right, but college isn't the answer for everybody. And also once you're there, do you have to just major in psychology, business or marketing? Like that's, there's so many options where I want people to be exposed to a lot before they make those life choices or people who are already, you know, adults who already, you know, to know that you can always come back or do something pivot, right? And so it was very important to me that, again, I keep saying intergenerational community building. I want to make sure everybody has options. So theater and performing arts is something that's a skill anybody can learn as well as develop. So maybe you're not the best at basketball, but you still want to do that in college.

Obum Ukabam:
Maybe you still want to be on TV. There's a path to that. Right. And I'm not going to rest until we see, you know, it's happened before already. But since I've been here, I want to see our first student or somebody in a community that's on Broadway. Right, those are the type of goals I have. Get them scholarships into Juilliard and you know even OU. You know, everywhere around here. I really want to make sure that this community has access to the arts. I see that the film industry is coming here so let's be prepared for that. Let's be equipped. They're going to be looking for actors, tech crew, they're going to be looking for lighting, costumes, everything. So we want to make sure we build an engine that can train and develop all of those things. So when they are looking for us, they don't have to get anybody else. They can come right to Tulsa and say, or Oklahoma period and say, hey, we're looking for actors. Hey, we're looking for a grip boy. Hey, we're looking for PAs. We got them all because we're training them constantly.

Justin Harlan:
Well, I hope you realize, I mean, the representation and access that you described, that you tried to provide for Tulsa Remote or people looking into Tulsa Remote. You're doing that now for students too, seeing you on stage or seeing you direct, seeing you produce shows. I mean, seeing themselves reflected in you as a leader, making a big impact in the city. There's power in that too. So kudos. One of the things I think Tulsa Remote five years ago when we created the organization, obviously I had no idea how fast we would scale because we didn't know a pandemic was coming, but also I don't think we necessarily recognized the power of the spouse, or the partner or the kids that would come with the people. We know that for about every three people we bring to town, there's an additional two that come. There's a really cool story underneath your spouse, Faith, and her entrepreneurialism. So I just want to touch on that briefly. Maybe just touch on how that happened, how you came to open up that restaurant and yeah, what that story has been like for you.

Obum Ukabam:
Typical to a lot of people in California. So Faith had went to culinary school, did the whole journey, but really, you know, there's not a lot of opportunity. And if so, it's everybody, you know, you have a million people going for it, right? And so Faith culinary trained… isculinary school trained, you know, and it was very award-winning too at that. Working at Panera here, you know, and there was nothing wrong with that, but working at Panera in California. And we made that change, we know it was good thinking, hey, maybe we can just go transfer to Panera here. That was the plan, right? And continue things going. But as soon as you come to Tulsa, though, you see opportunities, right? Now you start, unlike other places, knowledge is usually an access. You know, information is a barrier. Knowledge is a barrier. Information is a barrier. In Tulsa, a lot of things are open, right? So we saw there's opening here at the new restaurant for the Gathering Place. It was a new restaurant at the Gathering Place. And so Faith ended up becoming one of the managing chefs there. So that's step one. It was like, oh, okay.

Obum Ukabam:
Now there's a program where you can test your concepts out and okay let's do that. You know, Faithloves cheese. so it was going to be grilled cheese at first and then we started developing it more and going through the kitchen 66 program in Mother Road Market. And so that was a great incubator for me and for Faith. We both joined it and Faith did a lot of the work of course. Wnd we would we would do our first pop-up. Now our pop-ups happened right during the pandemic. And so typically, you know, Mother Road Market, you know, we have a a lot of organic traffic and you can go to the test kitchen and you see a new concept. People can purchase it and give feedback but we were during a pandemic so we did ours to just drive up pop-ups. We had to do some marketing, commercials, our own thing. And then the word kept spreading. Another reason the word kept spreading is because Faith… we would go and donate our time and, you know, food to people's events and programs. If it was like the Black Business Women of America, Black Business Women of Tulsa, we would bring a nice salad, you know, or bring some appetizers and start getting the word out. And so finally, through the incubator, she graduated. Next thing you know, there was an offer to have a permanent spot at Mother Road Market. And so...

Obum Ukabam:
First time ever owning anything like that. And so Faith had a restaurant. She grew a restaurant just from idea to pop-up to incubator to a full-fledged restaurant with staff, employing a lot of people and just serving a lot of people and making an impact in this community. Because everybody knows about Curds and Whey Gourmet. And so we've been very fortunate to even have the opportunity. Again, low risk but high reward.

Justin Harlan:
Yeah.

Obum Ukabam:
Right? And so because you were able to test our – we didn't have to buy equipment to test out our product. We had a place, a venue, and we had the means, and they gave us a POS system, everything we needed. And that's what I can say about Tulsa. They'll give you the shot that you need. People just need that shot, right? They just need a chance to show. And so, yeah, that's why it was very successful. And Faith now, come California, has her own restaurant where she can grow if she would like or try a different concept. The sky's the limit here in Tulsa.

Justin Harlan:
I love it. I got to know, man. So your wife's an entrepreneur. I know a huge part of your story has also been weight loss. You just mentioned cheese. I know she's got fries on that menu. How did you lose so much weight when she's making cheese and fries? I mean, I've eaten some of her stuff before. It's heavy. How did you do it?

Obum Ukabam:
Heavy, great stuff. Thank God cheese is a protein. But honestly, that's why I had to stay busy myself and other things because if not, I would have been at home eating Faith’s food and all the weight loss out the window. So, no, it's tough. It's still tough.

Obum Ukabam:
I mean, there's things you guys don't know that she can cook that she's amazing at. Right now, Faith is just staying in her lane, but she really can cover it all. And she worked at a Summit Club, too. She was a very well-known chef at the Summit Club. She helped out over there, and she loved it there and got some stuff on the menu. So, she's just very talented. And so, I have to stay away sometimes because if not, I'm going to mess up whatever she's working on and I'm going to mess up my diet.

Justin Harlan:
You're more disciplined than I am.

Obum Ukabam:
But I failed a lot. I'll say that. I failed a lot.

Justin Harlan:
As we all do. Man, I can't say enough just about the ways in which you've plugged yourself into the community. I mean, oftentimes I find myself– one of the beauties of the job is talking about Tulsa Remote as kind of this big machine and hearing people's various opinions, which you get kind of across the spectrum as to what Tulsa Remote is. And then it's like, oh, you know Obum? And I didn't know Obum was Tulsa Remote. And they can talk about ways in which you've impacted their life or they've seen you on a stage or they've eaten face food or whatever else. I mean, you're showing up at council meetings and playing a role in the development of Greenwood. And for me, I think it's just such a thing of beauty to see somebody who can tap into the impact that somebody has had on their life and also not even recognize how they got here, which at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter.

Obum Ukabam:
Yeah.

Justin Harlan:
And you all have done just a great job of integrating into Tulsa as a whole, finding places you can add value and be additive and impacting the city, both kids, adults, amongst others. And we're grateful for that. What's next for you? Where do you all see yourselves going from here in Tulsa?

Obum Ukabam:
Just continue to love the city and just continue to build. I want to build, continue to build things and all the things people want here. And I’m seeing now, yes we came here for a better life but it's my job now, I feel it's my responsibility to make sure that i'm creating a better life for students here. I don't want people to feel like they have to leave Tulsa like how I felt I wanted to leave. And a lot of people feel, like, you know, which I support your journey to go find other thing. But I want to create a Tulsa where it's going to be hard for you to leave. I want students to be so, and when I say students, I'm just talking about young people, period. I want them to be so proud of Tulsa and proud of what they have here and have so many opportunities that it's going to be a hard sell to get them to come to your city or state college or whatever, because we have it here and they want to be a part of continuing it. So for me, it's continuing to build. I'm very active. I'm building a Black Broadway here. And so Black Broadway is for everybody, right? But the moniker is Black Broadway to remember the access that we don't have for a lot of people of color. So we want to build something that everybody can be you're proud of and be entertained by and also do workforce development with. So for me, you're going to see a lot of workforce development, a lot of training, a lot of high level shows continuing here in Tulsa, making sure that people of color, East Tulsa, I'm with the global district as well, North Tulsa, West, everywhere, right? We want to make sure that they have access and they're getting the proper and the same training and same opportunities everybody else is getting here in Tulsa. Because one thing about Tulsa is, you know, it's not that we don't want to give access, it's just a lot of people don't know about it. And so-

Obum Ukabam:
Continue to bridge those connections together and bring people in and deal with the problems we have like transportation and knowledge and access information so removing barriers is what i'm continuing to do and building Tulsa. Gut i'm gonna have fun doing it. One thing I need to start doing in 2024, I'm gonna make sure. I'm gonna do more but less, right? You saw me on a lot of boards before and a lot of just really getting getting my nose dirty. But now I've done that and I know what needs to be done. So I'm gonna do less of the boards and just more of getting down and dirty and having a lot more fun. I want to have a lot more fun because Tulsa is a fun place. Sometimes I feel like I miss out on a lot of the fun because I'm working too hard, but I'm going to enjoy all those things because it is my state and city too.

Justin Harlan:
I love it, man. Well, thanks for all you've done, continue to do. And I'm looking forward to following your story in the years ahead. Maybe we'll be back in, in five years to celebrate 10 years at Tulsa Remote and another story featuring all the ways you've developed from there. So thanks for your time today and for all you've done for the city.

Obum Ukabam:
And I thank you all for giving me the opportunity to do this. You know, I always want to make sure I give Tulsa Remote  proper credit. I thank you guys for getting me started in all this. There is none of this without Tulsa Remote. And that's why I feel it's my responsibility to be a good Tulsa Remoter and be a good example in this city. Because I did talk a lot and did a lot in the beginning. So I want to make sure I'm a representative. But also, I'm very grateful to the staff in the beginning and the staff now for all you guys do for Tulsa as well as Tulsa Remoters. So thank you.

Justin Harlan:
I appreciate it, man.

Obum Ukabam:
No problem.